UCG Crisis Continues; Ministry Flushed

Abigail Cartwright has produced a shocking  list of ministry separated from the UCG at UCG Current Crisis (for the complete list, click over):

All Regional Pastors removed to be replaced by Ministerial Team October 2010.  These Regional Pastors were: Bruce Gore, Todd Carey, Greg Sargent, Jim Haeffle, Jim Servidio, Larry Grieder, Lyle Welty, Larry Neff and Mike Hanisko. Denny Luker was an RP when he was made president; he was not replaced.   

The following individuals while removed/resigned or asked to resign continue to be employed as paid elders
Mr. Johnson - May 2010 - not reconfirmed as Corporate Secretary

Mr. Horchak - May 2010 - position on the Ministerial Services team was eliminated when Vic Kubik came in as interim operations manager.
Mr. Thompson - May 2010 - position on the Ministerial Services team was eliminated when Vic Kubik came in as interim operations manager.
Mr. Register - May 2010 - resigned as Director of Educational Services, his position on the Ministerial Services team was eliminated when Vic Kubik
Mr. Kilough - April 2010 - asked to resign as President
Mr. Franks - April 2010 - asked to resign as Operations Manger of Ministerial services 
Mr. Salyer - April 2010 - resigned as Operations Manager of Media 
Mr. Kilough - July 2009 - resigned from CoE
Mr. Thompson - July 2009 - resigned from CoE
Mr. Foster - July 2009 - removed as Council Reporter 

NO2HWA, a longtime Pasadena insider, has some interesting thoughts on how UCG got started at the 360/380/390 apartments on campus, "They knew their jobs, their free cars, their homes, their standard of living, paid feast travel, their $10,000.00 +  year-end bonuses, etc was about to change...".   Read it all at Banned By HWA!

Next up, a letter from Victor Kubik on the latest crisis:

Dear fellow ministers and employees,

We are sad to inform you that we have relieved Larry Salyer of his ministerial duties. He was suspended after he held meetings in the congregations he pastors after services in which he openly criticized the leadership of the Church. This is unacceptable conduct by a minister and the action is what has always been taken against anyone who openly speaks to our brethren in such a manner.

Roy Holladay, regional pastor, was sent to Texarkana, Texas and Ruston, Louisiana to speak to the congregations and let the brethren know of Larry Salyer's suspension. Roy Holladay mistakenly announced, though, that Larry Salyer's ministerial credentials were removed. While Ministerial Services can relieve someone of their duties, it is only the Council of Elders that can remove credentials. Roy realized he made a mistake in wording and apologized to Larry Salyer. He also contacted the elders in both congregations and asked them to notify the brethren of this error.

We have wanted to keep this personnel matter just between the parties involved, but write to you because news of this has spread through the Internet. Larry Salyer wrote an open letter that he encouraged be freely shared with all. Because of this we are letting you know the basic facts of this unfortunate situation.

Victor Kubik
Ministerial Services


But, AR asks, according to the Law, was this process fair? HQ had judged Larry Salyer guilty even before Roy Holladay arrived in Texarkana, tied his neck in a noose, and had him swinging from a tree, all before departing for Chattanooga!

Larry Salyer's Last Letter

Hello Fellow Elders, (oops! maybe not)

In the midst of great confusion in the United Church of God and especially in the small congregations of Texarkana, Texas and Ruston, Louisiana, it seems appropriate to share the latest events of which I am a witness and a participant. Let me give you a little history before you try to make sense of the message copied below.

On Sabbath, October 9, I chose to bring the brethren up to date on what is going on in the Church. Actually, I had committed to them before the Feast that I would discuss the latest information coming out of the Home Office when we got home from the Feast. (I was only able to be with them on Atonement after the papers came out, due to medical issues with Judy).

The format was the same in each area. First, we had a regular service in which I gave a sermon on the role of shepherds in God's flock, both in Israel and in the Church. I also explaied how shepherds must deal with "wolves" or lions or bears as David did (I Samuel 17:34-37 are instructive here). After the closing prayer, I invited anyone who wanted to stay for a briefing on the papers and events in the Church. Virtually all stayed. I gave a brief overview of the past several months of conflict and friction in the Church. I then summarized the errors in the two papers and stated unequivocally that they were wrong. I cautioned the brethren to be very alert to any doctrinal drift and not just assume everything that comes out is legitimate. I explained the failure of the unknown authors of these papers to pass them by the doctrine committee. In closing, I mentioned that my saying these things openly, as a shepherd must according to Scripture, would not be well received at the Home Office and that if I were not here next Sabbath they could guess why.

On Thursday evening I returned home to find a message from Denny and Vic asking me to call. When I returned the call Friday morning, I got Denny only. Just let me add that during that phone call Denny said, (very nearly verbatim quote here) "Larry, you have put me in an awkward position. I have to suspend you from ministerial duties until you have talked with Roy Holladay. Roy will come back and write up a report." He indicated that after that it would be determined what comes next.

For the record I will add here, that I said to Denny ( a long time friend and fellow evangelist in WCG), "Denny, you said I had put you in an awkward position. Let me state here, as one evangelist to another, that I believe you and Roy and others have put me in an awkward position. As a shepherd, I have a responsibility to my flock to help them discern truth and error."

At that point Denny expressed again that he would have to suspend me until I had talked to Roy. The rest is below.
This information is free to be shared if you think it will be helpful to anyone. I have a limited number of private addresses and do not want to use corporate email. Please see message below from me to Council, President and MS team.

Larry Salyer, October 17, 2010
Sent: Sunday, October 17, 2010 2:11 AM
To: dennis_luker@ucg.org; melvin_rhodes@ucg.org; bill_eddington@ucg.org; aaron_dean@ucg.org; darris_mcneely@ucg.org; jim_franks@ucg.org; scott_ashley@ucg.org; david_baker@ucg.org; robin_webber@ucg.org; mike_blackwell@ucg.org; david_treybig@ucg.org; bob_berendt@ucg.org; mario_seiglie@ucg.org
Cc: roy_holladay@ucg.org; victor_kubik@ucg.org; gary_anition@ucg.org
Subject: De-credentialing process


The phone call this evening caught me completely by surprise for a couple of reasons. First, as I am familiar with the process for approving or removing elder credentials, it seems unlikely to me that such a process could have been followed within the past week, the ostensible reason for such action being statements I made to my congregations last Sabbath. Further, nothing has yet been communicated to me about my credentials as an elder in UCG.

Second, in a phone conversation on Friday morning, President Denny Luker had asked me to confirm or deny accusations that I had addressed the congregations about the Sabbath and Fasting papers and said that I did not agree with them. I said I most certainly had and I believed it was my pastoral duty to the flock to do so. Denny immediately suspended me "from ministerial duties" He instructed me not to attend services on the Sabbath of October 16. He informed me that Roy Holladay would be coming to the area to speak in both churches. I asked him to review that prohibition as I thought it important to the congregation that I be there to hear what was said and to be able to follow up later if I were allowed to continue to pastor. Mr. Luker said he would seek counsel on that and call me back, which he did, saying it was unanimous among the MS team that I should not be at services. Mr. Luker in no way indicated that I was being removed, but repeated that I was being suspended. He said that he and Roy would like for me to meet with Roy and talk. I agreed to do so. He said he hoped I would not make a bunch of calls and stir up trouble. I assured him I would not.

On Friday, I sent an email to all three elders telling them that I would not be there, but that Mr. Holladay would take the sermons. I said nothing about suspension. I spoke to one other member by phone, who asked who would be speaking on the Sabbath. I mentioned that Roy Holladay would be there. Later Roy called me and asked if I could drive to Ruston to meet with him on Sunday morning. I agreed, as he had a long drive to Chattanooga ahead of him.

So what about the phone call? A member called me and gave me a summary of the service. He said that it was announced that my "credentials had been removed." Incredulous, I said, you mean he said I was suspended. He said no, Mr. Holladay said your credentials had been removed. This was confirmed in another call a little later. Still, I did not believe it and so called the sound person who dubs the CDs. I was allowed to listen to that portion of the announcements (sermonette time) and sure enough Roy said, and repeated in response to a question, that my credentials had been removed and that I was no longer the pastor. Later, I received a call from the other congregation. I asked if the same announcement had been made. The answer was an unequivocal "Yes."

A couple of questions: When did the COE meet and remove my credentials? If they did not, does the MS team or president now have that authority? If so how and when did they get it? Is it appropriate, prior to a planned meeting on Sunday morning to announce to the members on the Sabbath that my credentials have been removed? Did Roy know what he was talking about? Did he know before he made the appointment with me? Will MS and the Council posture that this was just another misstep? Will they try to retract it after the damage is done? Is somebody lying about the process, or making it up on the fly?

Finally, what is the value in driving 230 miles round trip to meet with a man who has come here in a professional capacity and conducted Church business in such an embarrassing manner?


Perhaps Dennis Luker will order a high-priced California legal opinion to try to legally justify these embarrassing actions.


Anonymous said...

Sounds like Larry's gearing up to pull either a Dave Havir or a Ron Dart. So, does anyone know if Salyer's a hard-liner? Or is he one of those horrifyingly "unconverted" liberals that are allegedly driving UCG to its much-anticipated doom?

(BTW2, does anyone know if Dart has kicked the bucket yet?)

Anonymous said...

Dave Havir is gone half the time, and needs somebody to take up the slack, so Salyer just might "see the light" and get a part-time gig. Sure beats working at the Dillards dept. store over in Tyler.

On the other hand, Dart needs somebody to take over his business, unless he plans on pulling a GTA.

Anonymous said...

No, I meant it sounds like Larry's planting the seeds for his own splinter group...the same way Havir and Dart planted the seeds, for theirs.

You don't honestly think a CoG can have more than one false prophet, do you? Even Weinland's outfit only has one! (The missus is "The Silent Witness". No I don't get it either.)

Anonymous said...

So, anyone up for starting a betting pool on how many of "the faithful flock" ('s filthy lucre) that Salyer is going to poach from the mothership?

Steve said...

I heard that the UCG HQ has sent someone out to California to "see" Ken Geise. Anyone heard anything about it?

NO2HWA said...

Every time I see that picture above it looks like he is giving the finger to everyman. Too funny.

Anonymous said...

Mr. Lukewarm